Comments on: Unintended acceleration and driver error. http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/ Building and re-building great automotive brands. Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:52:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Miriam Schottland http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-1599 Miriam Schottland Tue, 24 Aug 2010 02:54:50 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1599 According to all the tests by NHTSA engineers and others; their findings prove my point in my letter to the Wall Street Journal. We are not teaching drivers how to drive, and then those same drivers teach their teens how to drive, (or not to drive), and now teens are killing themselves in record numbers. NHTDA, in my meeting with them last year, claimed that "if we teach teens how to control a car, they will become too self confident, and they will go fast"! Can anyone explain that logic? So the cycle of bad driving in the USA goes on and on. According to all the tests by NHTSA engineers and others; their findings prove my point in my letter to the Wall Street Journal. We are not teaching drivers how to drive, and then those same drivers teach their teens how to drive, (or not to drive), and now teens are killing themselves in record numbers. NHTDA, in my meeting with them last year, claimed that “if we teach teens how to control a car, they will become too self confident, and they will go fast”! Can anyone explain that logic?
So the cycle of bad driving in the USA goes on and on.

]]> By: Automotive http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-1571 Automotive Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:55:18 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1571 lol lol

]]> By: Driverindirin.com Son Eklenen Driverlar http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-448 Driverindirin.com Son Eklenen Driverlar Sat, 10 Apr 2010 11:30:29 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-448 <strong>Driverindirin.com Son Eklenen Driverlar...</strong> “ It was still night time and he didn’ t notice the road led into the lake. His GPS told him to drive straight ahead and he did,” Smolen said, adding the driver had not been under the influence of alcohol.... Driverindirin.com Son Eklenen Driverlar…

“ It was still night time and he didn’ t notice the road led into the lake. His GPS told him to drive straight ahead and he did,” Smolen said, adding the driver had not been under the influence of alcohol….

]]> By: Watt D. Fjark http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-365 Watt D. Fjark Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:02:00 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-365 John McElroy had a comment about the UA and the age of the driver--the older the driver, the greater likelihood of an incident. But that's almost worse than admitting a defect in the vehicle--does Toyota want it discussed that their average driver's age is uncomfortably close to a Buick driver's? John McElroy had a comment about the UA and the age of the driver–the older the driver, the greater likelihood of an incident.

But that’s almost worse than admitting a defect in the vehicle–does Toyota want it discussed that their average driver’s age is uncomfortably close to a Buick driver’s?

]]> By: Cameron http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-300 Cameron Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:03:17 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-300 Thanks for this link Harvey, it's all over the news this morning. I can't remember whether UA for Audi was limited to shifting instances or not. I do know that as a result of the Audi allegations the mechanism that requires the driver to have his foot on the brake while shifting in and out of gear was developed and deployed. While eerily similar in some respects to Audi, the Toyota situation is quite different. The extraordinary use of electronics in today's automobiles is making this incredibly hard to diagnose and of course the internet makes crisis management more of a challenge. That said, history and experience leads many to conclude that eventually driver error will be the major culprit. Thanks for this link Harvey, it’s all over the news this morning. I can’t remember whether UA for Audi was limited to shifting instances or not. I do know that as a result of the Audi allegations the mechanism that requires the driver to have his foot on the brake while shifting in and out of gear was developed and deployed.

While eerily similar in some respects to Audi, the Toyota situation is quite different. The extraordinary use of electronics in today’s automobiles is making this incredibly hard to diagnose and of course the internet makes crisis management more of a challenge.

That said, history and experience leads many to conclude that eventually driver error will be the major culprit.

]]> By: Harvey Briggs http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-299 Harvey Briggs Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:44:37 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-299 When I attended Skip Barber's advanced driving course, we were told that in most accidents people used 40% of a car's capability and then gave up. So I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the Toyota claims are due to driver error. What makes this different from Audi is these events appear to occur while on the road. As I recall the Audi UI happened when going from park into gear and was ultimately due to a pedal placement issue. If the most recent cases are true, Toyota's problems will not be going away any time soon... http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/runaway-toyotas-listen-911-tape-94-mph-san/story?id=10057602 When I attended Skip Barber’s advanced driving course, we were told that in most accidents people used 40% of a car’s capability and then gave up. So I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the Toyota claims are due to driver error.

What makes this different from Audi is these events appear to occur while on the road. As I recall the Audi UI happened when going from park into gear and was ultimately due to a pedal placement issue.

If the most recent cases are true, Toyota’s problems will not be going away any time soon… http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/runaway-toyotas-listen-911-tape-94-mph-san/story?id=10057602

]]> By: Cameron http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-291 Cameron Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:55:46 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-291 Keith, thanks so much for commenting. More seems to be coming to light on David Gilbert's research. I don't mean to diminish the concerns over product issues, they need to be exhaustively researched and analyzed. That said, human error is by far the greatest cause of accidents and it seems to get very little airtime in the "conversation" about Toyota (or an other UA issue). I don't want to let Toyota or any other manufacturer off the hook, but at the same time these products are extraordinarily safe and that seems to be lost in the public discussion. Keith, thanks so much for commenting. More seems to be coming to light on David Gilbert’s research. I don’t mean to diminish the concerns over product issues, they need to be exhaustively researched and analyzed. That said, human error is by far the greatest cause of accidents and it seems to get very little airtime in the “conversation” about Toyota (or an other UA issue). I don’t want to let Toyota or any other manufacturer off the hook, but at the same time these products are extraordinarily safe and that seems to be lost in the public discussion.

]]> By: Keith Sketchley http://autoperspectives.com/blog/2010/03/04/unintended-acceleration-and-driver-error/comment-page-1/#comment-290 Keith Sketchley Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:42:01 +0000 http://autoperspectives.com/blog/?p=488#comment-290 While I agree that driver error is common, and with the comment on onfusion (check the investigation of a car careening through a market in California, witnesses did not see the brake lights come on at any time), there are omissions in Schottland's letter. First, Audi did have a problem of idle speed going high due to a failure of a part. If the driver put the vehicle in drive without having foot on brake good practice, it would move smartly. Second, there is a trap in using brakes to stop a runaway vehicle - if you pump the brakes per traditional practive you'll deplete vacuun which is low when the engine is at high speed. Third, there is the lack of brake over-ride of engine in Toyota vehicles. Finally, I note the as yet unverified to my knowledge finding of David Gilbert that there is a failure mode in Toyta's design. Whether or not the probability of it is signficant it contradicts Toyota's clams thus is very damaging to their credibility. There is a need for driver education - some reports from Toyota owners reveal that many drivers do not understand the Neutral function of an AT - in one case a passenger had to tell the driver to shift into neutral. While I agree that driver error is common, and with the comment on onfusion (check the investigation of a car careening through a market in California, witnesses did not see the brake lights come on at any time), there are omissions in Schottland’s letter.

First, Audi did have a problem of idle speed going high due to a failure of a part. If the driver put the vehicle in drive without having foot on brake good practice, it would move smartly.

Second, there is a trap in using brakes to stop a runaway vehicle – if you pump the brakes per traditional practive you’ll deplete vacuun which is low when the engine is at high speed.

Third, there is the lack of brake over-ride of engine in Toyota vehicles.

Finally, I note the as yet unverified to my knowledge finding of David Gilbert that there is a failure mode in Toyta’s design. Whether or not the probability of it is signficant it contradicts Toyota’s clams thus is very damaging to their credibility.

There is a need for driver education – some reports from Toyota owners reveal that many drivers do not understand the Neutral function of an AT – in one case a passenger had to tell the driver to shift into neutral.

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